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Is Mass Development a Viable Long-Term Business Model?

Posted on 05 July 2010 by Andrei

I’ve made it clear that building 5 to 10-page minisites is NOT a viable long-term business model yesterday and I’m sure that most people who own hundreds or thousands of domanis are asking themselves: is mass development in general a viable business model? Let’s find out!

Why Mass Development?

Nobody can deny the fact that parking is not what it used to be and let’s face it: it was good while it lasted! You were able to make some decent money by simply pointing a domain to a nameserver and doing a little bit of basic tweaking here and there. In other words, parking represented maybe the closest thing to online passive income.

But things have changed and not for the better. A great domain that made $1000 per year a few years ago can barely make $400 per year at this point.

But Hey, $400 Per Year Is Not Bad, Right?

Sure, you can look at it this way if you’re feeling optimistic today. As far as the domains that made 3-4 figures per year are concerned, this way of thinking is not entirely unreasonable.

But let’s face it, domains like those represent a minority. I’ve given the $1,000 to $400 per year drop as an example. But what about domains which were making not $1,000 but a mere $10 per year and are now making $4 instead?

From Asset to Liability

At $10 per year, the domain is at least an asset. It’s making more than regfee and if you own thousands of such domains, it adds up. But at $4 per year, things no longer stand that way and an asset turned into a liability just like that.

As a person who owns thousands or even hundreds of domains, you’re dealing with an extremely tricky situation and are naturally asking yourself what needs to be done next. The seemingly obvious solution:

Wait a Minute, Why Don’t You Develop Them?

Let’s assume that you don’t have a lot of experience as a developer and decide to turn 500 domains into websites, domains which were making about $5,000 per year together via parking back in 2007 and which are currently only making $2,000 or so per year.

You hire a few people to get the job done at let’s say $30 per very very small website. One of those 5 to 10-page minisites I’ve referred to yesterday. And as I’ve mentioned yesterday, you’ll observe a few things:

1) You’ve invested $15,000 and now have 500 5 to 10-page minisites

2) Without additional traffic from let’s say search engines (the #1 traffic source for minisites by far), in other words by simply monetizing the current type-in traffic of a website, you’re making considerably LESS than by parking the domain.

Let’s refer to the 500 domains which were only making $2,000 per year parked. Park pages have considerably higher CTRs and the 500 domains which were making $2,000 per year parked will probably barely make $600 – $700 or so as minisites without additional traffic.

3) OK, so you need more traffic. But in order to generate search engine traffic, you need to build links and that will cost you even more money. And again, as mentioned here, search engines hate you.

Your sites will receive penalties, your AdSense account might get banned and so on. After a minisite creation + SEO campaign, let’s say a year or so later, most of your sites will probably be penalized on Google or even de-listed (which will even affect the resale value of a domain) and in most cases, you won’t even break even. You’ll be back to square one, with 500 websites which have no additional traffic and are making less than what they would have earned parked.

On top of that, you will probably lose your AdSense account as well. “No big deal”, you might think, “I’ll just switch to CPA”. Oh really? Here are two important aspects worth taking into consideration:

1) You will not always earn more by monetizing your traffic via CPA, there are more than a few niches which simply don’t have a lot of advertisers which will accept you as an affiliate.

2) Even if we assume that CPA makes you more than AdSense, it is HIGHLY unlikely that it will make you more than parking as far as most niches are concerned. And with the 5 to 10-page minisites I have referred to, it’s only a matter of time until you end up being penalized by search engines and having to limit yourself to simply monetizing the type-in traffic of a domain (as explained previously).

Alright, so building 5 to 10-page minisites is not the way to go. A lot of you are probably thinking:

Then What About Larger Sites?

Let’s refer to our 500 domains again. Instead of paying $30 per 5 to 10-page minisite, you can pay $200 for a decent site with let’s say 40 unique articles, an investment of $100,000 for 500 sites.

As per our initial example, those 500 sites are currently making $2,000 per year parked combined at this point. You’d have to invest your yearly parking revenue * 50 (yes, 50 years) just so you can have 500 live sites.

Then you have to invest money each year in order to have a steady influx of fresh unique content for each site. Let’s say $100 per year per site, in other words $50,000 per year for your entire portfolio.

Then you have to invest in SEO services in order to make it to the 1st page and stay there (yes, rankings need to be MAINTAINED). Let’s assume that your average term has 500 exact match monthly searches, then be EXTREMELY optimistic and say that you can get away with paying $100 per year per site for SEO services (and that’s only because the terms are not very competitive). Basically $50,000 per year for your entire portfolio.

A short expense recap (to make calculations easier, we’ll ignore regfees):

$100,000 initially
$50,000 yearly for content
$50,000 yearly for SEO services

Now let’s see how much money you’ll be making. We have assumed that your average domain has 500 exact match monthly searches. Now let’s assume that you’ll make it to the first page with each site and have 10,000 pageviews per year per site as an average (a moderately optimistic scenario and I’m taking long tail searches into consideration as well).

As far as your earnings per thousand pageviews are concerned, let’s be EXTREMELY optimistic (again, EXTREMELY) and assume that you will make $20. In other words, you’ll make $200 per year per site ($100,000 per year for the 500 sites combined) if we’re extremely optimistic.

The Final Numbers

Initial investment: $100,000
Yearly expenses (content + SEO): $100,000
Yearly revenue: $100,000

After drawing the line, you’ll see that you’re basically in a yearly “break even” situation and you probably won’t be recouping your initial $100k investment anytime soon.

Does having a great domain help? Yes!
Is having a great domain enough? No!

But What If Your Numbers Are Way Off?

You know what? They probably are but only because I’ve been quite optimistic! Here’s why I think that I’ve been optimistic:

1) I have assumed that each and every site will make it to the 1st page and that each and every site will receive 10,000 yearly pageviews

2) I have assumed that all sites will earn a steady $20 per thousand pageviews

3) I have assumed that there will be SEO companies willing to work on each site for $100 per year. In other words, less than $10 per month per site

4) I have assumed that you will find a company willing to build you 500 non-spammy websites with 40 decent articles for $200 each

5) I have assumed that none of your sites will receive penalties, highly unlikely given the fact that search engine algos are as unpredictable as it gets and that, whether people want to admit it or not, Google hates SEO. In an ideal situation, they would want all links to be editorial.

Is Mass Development a Viable Long-Term Business Model

You’re all smart adults, what do you think?

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138 Comments For This Post

  1. Nick Says:

    Very well said. And you’re right about the numbers, the earnings are usually less than half those based on my own calculations.

  2. SSMAN Says:

    So is it best to develop only the best and leave the others parked?

  3. nmwando Says:

    The easy money days are gone hehehe

  4. Dzinerfusion Says:

    Great article, although I disagree with you about the income. If you are saying that those sites are all minisites, then maybe you are right. There are many uses of a domain that can make it profitable, like a blog, service, forum etc instead of a 50 page cookie cutter minisites.

    As always, if you never developed a website before or know Seo, then 99% of people will never make moneey if you do not know the fundenmentals of a site. Of course you can hire , but it cost money.

  5. nmwando Says:

    I disagree with you Dzinerfusion because article sites are the easiest to develop you just add articles. It’s true there are more ways than one to develop but they are all harder than article sites. Like I commented before the easy money days are long gone

  6. glasshalffull Says:

    Actually since I have switched some sites over to cpa I have noticed that one simple ad/link made a $30+ sale the other week. I will definitely be spending more time with cpa programs adding unique content or direct deals with product and service providers to sell items/services/leads. That domain that made $30+ just paid for itself for the next 3 years. Just thought I’d offer a different perspective.
    Cheers.

  7. Jim Says:

    I like doing redirect deals with customers so that I get a fee on every redirect.

    Money can add up that way if you have bang-on traffic that a customer really wants.

    Forget the search engines, development, etc… Google will never let anyone win for an extended time.

    Google, Yahoo, Bing are the enemy. There is no “real” alliance with them….they want you snuffed out and turned to dust.

  8. Hawaiian Shirt Guy Says:

    Perhaps as an interim business model, where it is greater than parking but less than full development. Perhaps it is best to have some content on the site to build some rank and traffic while at some point in the relatively near future a full site will be launched.

    If Google penalizes (choose your own word) minisites with its own adwords, I see nothing to stop it from penalizing sites using a competitive PPC program similar to adwords.

    I choose to believe in direct sales.

  9. DomainManagment.net Says:

    Well BillionDollarMedia i like your article but disagree with it

    i think you are making many assumptions.and in the negative

    there will be different earning potentials in different sectors

    you mention about sites being penalised etc etc why would google want

    to penalise nice cleen sites ?? its like you have had a raw deal or

    gone about developing the wrong way .
    you can generate nice leads for the personal injury sector that can
    be worth more than $500 on a cpa model in the uk more than £500
    you can sell debt leads for a very good price
    its basic business common sense you only get involved were you think you can make a return you either have not got great domains or you are not developing them correctly which is obvious from your post

    you know turn i site into a mini business place a telephone number on it have a answering service answer sell the call to a company for 10-20-30-40-50-60-70-100 plus its called hot keying sell the email enquiries create a central list come one you are looking to earn and not put any effort in . effort = reward ,

    not to mention the SeoEquity or SerpEquity on a site in the uk DOMAINLORE.CO.UK a couple of months ago a guy sold carfinnance.org.uk for $15,000 had a wordpress blogsite on it
    o spoke with the guy that sold it he said it took him 8 weeks to get it on page2 pos20 the serp is what help sell it he created value

    you know you talk about you could get a site with 40 articles that would cost $200 they would be rubbish because you want everything on the cheap spend quality money on quality work

    pick lets say 25 of your best sites instead of 500 lets have a budget of $250 per site let put 5 pages of quality seo`d content on there at
    $20 per page $150 for a wordpress site with on page seo and it being deployed on a server
    so lets say you buy a good domain name for $1,500 invest 250-500
    return $15,000 no brainer thats on the can do know stage then imagine

    you have stock doamains cost $10 develop 250 sell $x,xxx

    come on wake smell the coffee this is happening every day of the week

    the money yo umake you can re invest into developing the next batch and so on

  10. DomainManagement.net Says:

    ps sorry everyone i am a bit dyslexic so grammar and spelling is crap

    but i hope yo ucatch my drift

    best regards $teve

  11. Andrei Says:

    @DomainManagement.net: unfortunately, Google does not consider most minisites “clean”. Even if the design is nice, Google still hates you. A small site with a bunch of Google AdSense ads on it is a MFA site in their eyes and that will never change.

    The same way, a small CPA site is considered a “thin affiliate site” by their staff. Remember BANS (Build a Niche Store)? It was one of the first scripts people used to build niche affiliate site. Needless to say, the sites which used that script ended up being banned and this makes one thing perfectly clear: Google hates small sites. Those which are monetized via AdSense are considered MFA sites, those which are monetized via CPA are considered thin affiliate sites.

    Can money be made? Definitely but you’re playing cat & mouse with Google.

    Is playing cat & mouse with your traffic source a viable long-term business model? Of course not and that will never change, which is exactly the point I have made through this article :)

  12. Paul Lilley Says:

    I put this on warrior forum , it is a fantastic well laid out diagram of what it really takes to be successful in the internet marketing field. These promises of millions for no work are getting old and the real amount of effort is well laid out here. Thank you.

  13. Sri Says:

    I agree with DomainManagement.net

    Targeted and clean development of a handful of domains at a time will create value. Create a simple static site plus blog with WordPress and some passion and…well there a few key points that most people term SEO.

    Moreover, you disregard the fact that parked pages are being summarily de-listed from search engines, while a site/blog combo will continue to be indexed, provided you provide real value to a visitor, like your elementary school teacher says so rightly.

    The so-called MFA sites that you mention are the ones that use PLR/spinned content. If you have original content and addons that provide value, you will never get penalized. In fact, Google themselves advise on the proper method for site optimization and Adsense advises on using hotspots to place the ads.

    Have a look at CutleryHolders.com for what a site should be like. Development cost was $100 and I have already got back my cost.

  14. Andrei Says:

    @Sri: I think you’re missing the point of this blog post :)

    Here’s the title again:

    “Is Mass Development a Viable Long-Term Business Model?”

    Again, mass development. As in hundreds/thousands of domains. I don’t understand how your “Targeted and clean development of a handful of domains at a time will create value.” comment is relevant to this blog posts. Let’s assume that you own 500 or 5000 domains since, again, I am talking about mass development.

    How will the “Targeted and clean development of a handful of domains” business model work when you have to develop and MAINTAIN 500 or 5000 sites?

    And regarding MFA sites, you couldn’t be more wrong by stating that only sites with PLR/spinned content are frowned upon. As the name suggests (MFA = Made for AdSense), Google hates sites which are… made for AdSense (thin sites, sites which go over-board with the amount of screen real estate dedicated to ads and so on – in other words, sites which are obviously made for AdSense).

    Anyone can develop 10 – 15 domains and turn them into profitable sites, it’s not exactly rocket science. But when they try to scale (develop and maintain hundreds/thousands of sites), let’s just say that things become slightly more complicated ;)

  15. DomainBio.com Says:

    My mind is made up to focus on end-user sales but cant think how to get our portfolio out there. Any ideas? I have most domains for sale up on http://www.domainbio.com. Appreciate any feedback and ideas on how to spread the word.

    Thx..

  16. byDomainers Says:

    Is Mass Development a Viable Long-Term Business Model?
    Yes if you consider it as an intermediary solution for the monetizing & promotion of your domains, waiting the big deal.

  17. Andrei Says:

    @DomainBio.com: I’ll try to publish a blog post related to end user sales this week

    @byDomainers: unfortunately, breaking even is easier said than done when it comes to mass development, let’s not even start mentioning profits :)

    There are basically two important conclusions:

    1) If you try to mass develop hundreds or thousands of domains and add monetization to the mix, you will probably not even get close to breaking even (the numbers I have provided as examples are let’s just say extremely optimistic) and the sites will be penalized sooner rather than later (especially if you interlink them)

    2) If you try to mass develop hundreds or thousands of domains without adding monetization to the mix (maybe you want to simply generate more traffic in order to attract more potential buyers), you will probably lose even more money. Oh and when it comes to penalties, you might delay the inevitable but it’s only a matter of time until your domains get loved tenderly by search engines

  18. Andrei Says:

    An even shorter conclusion would be this: your main traffic source hates your guts if you’re a mass domain developer and as a result, a business model which relies on that traffic source is anything but viable :)

  19. DomainManagement.net Says:

    OK Andrei i am a bit slow doh but now fully understand your question and let me if that’s ok give my thoughts and opinion on it.

    “Is Mass Development a Viable Long-Term Business Model?”

    YES YES YES

    MFA sites are crap. the system we advise when developing out let say a 500 hundred domain name portfolio would be as follows;

    it would be stupid to roll out 500 sites that have just one theme
    for all sites. ie they look the same with crap autospun content

    you have to take a little time and effort. of course we can not set out today how business and google conditions will be in the future
    but this is life if you want to lead then you are always going to have to play a little cat and mouse, or should we say input effort = reward.

    i think any one size fits all solution in the domain developing game
    is dangerous the company selling you the service has to make a profit.

    otherwise whats the point its very simple

    you need to be professional not cheap

    you are wrestling with what i was in the begining as an owner of 3,500 domains “THE SIMPLE CHEAP SOLUTION” there isnt not one.
    lets pretend this is property developing we own many many many plots of land ( domains ) to develop them out all at the same time would be so expensive so you would either have to have a very very big stack of money in the bank to build the correct housing that the market wants to buy.

    that costs lots of money and to do all that at the same time is a financial burden what you are trying to do with maf site etc or crap auto generated sites and content is akin to putting tents up with no tent pegs and expecting them to realise as much value as traditional built property it just dont happen

    it is quite simple you have to change the sites themes maybe for 500 sites use 50 different theme`s make the site`s content good
    Dont use Indian or Philippine content that has been been re spun thinking you are going to out wit google. Pay for good quality content that has been written in a seo friendly way.

    if the sector is dense then yes apply some seo on long tail keywords
    to establish trust with google. yes do a little of page linking
    if needed.

    minsites make good money as long as they are not MAF sites and they are not auto generated site and they do not use auto generated content.

    Monetise them with CPA affiliate models and lead generation. Do put a telephone number on the site and an enquiry form after all it is supposed to be a frikin business.

    If anyone would like a site developed as a test by us our charges are from $250 and 30% of revenue generated for what would be normally a
    $2,000 dollar site

    PAYMENT TERMS PAY ONLY ONLY IF YOU ARE HAPPY WITH OUR WORK !!!!!!

  20. Andrei Says:

    @DomainManagement.net: regarding your “of course we can not set out today how business and google conditions will be in the future” comment, I would like to make a simple observation.

    When it comes to mass developing small sites, you don’t even have to think about the future Google algo changes because you know that Google hates you today :)

    A small site with AdSense ads is considered a MFA site.
    A small site monetized via CPA is considered a thin affiliate site.

    OK, but what about larger sites, sites with custom themes and so on, people might ask?

    You have given your $250 sites as an examples and I have actually referred to mass developing sites like those in this article, here is a quote (when referring to these sites in my example, I have used $200 instead of $250):

    “Then What About Larger Sites?

    Let’s refer to our 500 domains again. Instead of paying $30 per 5 to 10-page minisite, you can pay $200 for a decent site with let’s say 40 unique articles, an investment of $100,000 for 500 sites.

    As per our initial example, those 500 sites are currently making $2,000 per year parked combined at this point. You’d have to invest your yearly parking revenue * 50 (yes, 50 years) just so you can have 500 live sites.

    Then you have to invest money each year in order to have a steady influx of fresh unique content for each site. Let’s say $100 per year per site, in other words $50,000 per year for your entire portfolio.

    Then you have to invest in SEO services in order to make it to the 1st page and stay there (yes, rankings need to be MAINTAINED). Let’s assume that your average term has 500 exact match monthly searches, then be EXTREMELY optimistic and say that you can get away with paying $100 per year per site for SEO services (and that’s only because the terms are not very competitive). Basically $50,000 per year for your entire portfolio.

    A short expense recap (to make calculations easier, we’ll ignore regfees):

    $100,000 initially
    $50,000 yearly for content
    $50,000 yearly for SEO services

    Now let’s see how much money you’ll be making. We have assumed that your average domain has 500 exact match monthly searches. Now let’s assume that you’ll make it to the first page with each site and have 10,000 pageviews per year per site as an average (a moderately optimistic scenario and I’m taking long tail searches into consideration as well).

    As far as your earnings per thousand pageviews are concerned, let’s be EXTREMELY optimistic (again, EXTREMELY) and assume that you will make $20. In other words, you’ll make $200 per year per site ($100,000 per year for the 500 sites combined) if we’re extremely optimistic.

    The Final Numbers

    Initial investment: $100,000
    Yearly expenses (content + SEO): $100,000
    Yearly revenue: $100,000

    After drawing the line, you’ll see that you’re basically in a yearly “break even” situation and you probably won’t be recouping your initial $100k investment anytime soon.

    Does having a great domain help? Yes!
    Is having a great domain enough? No!

    But What If Your Numbers Are Way Off?

    You know what? They probably are but only because I’ve been quite optimistic! Here’s why I think that I’ve been optimistic:

    1) I have assumed that each and every site will make it to the 1st page and that each and every site will receive 10,000 yearly pageviews

    2) I have assumed that all sites will earn a steady $20 per thousand pageviews

    3) I have assumed that there will be SEO companies willing to work on each site for $100 per year. In other words, less than $10 per month per site

    4) I have assumed that you will find a company willing to build you 500 non-spammy websites with 40 decent articles for $200 each

    5) I have assumed that none of your sites will receive penalties, highly unlikely given the fact that search engine algos are as unpredictable as it gets and that, whether people want to admit it or not, Google hates SEO. In an ideal situation, they would want all links to be editorial.”

  21. DomainManagement.net Says:

    I really dont get your negative writing here when you write you talk propably

  22. Andrei Says:

    @DomainManagement.net: I’m not being negative, I’m simply being realistic. Mass development will unfortunately never be a viable long-term business model, sorry if I’m being brutally honest here but reality is what it is.

    People who own hundreds or thousands of domains would obviously be extremely happy if they were to find a scalable way to mass develop all of the domains which no longer generate decent parking revenue but it’s only a dream.

    I’d LOVE to be proven wrong but I know I never will be. There’s no doubt in my mind that lots of people can give me 10 – 15 or so of their profitable websites as examples but that’s not mass development. When I say mass development, I’m referring to hundreds of domains at the very least.

    Here’s a challenge for anyone who wants to prove me wrong and be 100% transparent: prove that you have been able to turn 500+ domains into profitable websites.

    In other words:

    1) Revenue stats (at least let’s say a year because again, we’re trying to prove the long-term viability of a business model here)

    2) Traffic stats (again, at least one year)

    3) Expense stats (invoices and stuff like that)

    This offer will never expire and if you manage to prove me wrong, I will make sure that each and every person who invests in domains for a living knows about your service.

  23. DomainManagement.net Says:

    From you post you are being subjective ie these are your thoughts

    we do it for real i would not be interested in developing a site i thought might only generate $20

    i deal in sites that generate income from xxx to xxx,xxx your use of 20 dollars show that either your domain names are not income earners therefore have been the wrong investment choice or have had the unfortunate but all to regular problem doing business with fast talkers, who much would you expect from from a site like
    Personalinjury.org ( NOT LIVE YET )
    we yield x,xxx to xx,xxx per month

    lets say a site like DebtManagementCompanies.org.uk again not live
    i had N.D.A`S in place so cant mention live site of clients in public
    froums
    we yied x,xxx per month

    there are other domains that have exact of maybe 2,000 that

    yield xxx`s to x,xxx

    i can say we manage a granite worktop site thats ok is a virtual business that makes xx,xxx every month and sometimes xxx,xxx

    Thats why i know you are wrong , experiance tells me these figures

    as for google hating these sites are previously stated

    you are wrong it loves my sites and i make great money from them and for my clients

    and there have been many replies that support this

    leave the theories at home and listen to what people are trying to tell you that are experiencing these kind of figure`s and mine are £`s keyword heavy domains rule why because google loves them

    put some original well written content on there on page seo and it will get well ranked dependent on density

    and vola you have a great income from a domain that is garthering

    serp equity ( love that who ever posted that before )

    that can sell in a couple year for a fantastic rate of return

    dont bite of more than you can chew and just develop a realistic amount while keep others in parking if your not sure or lack the funds you dont have to develop everything all at once

  24. Andrei Says:

    @DomainManagement.net: I’m sorry but without verifiable proof, your claims hold no value whatsoever. Let me explain how things stand:

    You are offering services. When offering services, it’s guilty until proven innocent and not the other way around. In other words, you need to back up each and every claim you make with verifiable proof (as explained previously) if you want to be taken seriously.

    I’m trying my best to be polite, so let’s just say that statements such as “our sites generate 11 figures per second but we can’t be more specific due to NDA-related issues” are unprofessional to say the least. If you have signed an NDA, don’t mention the project at all because any claims you make are worthless without proof. Instead, why not refer to the projects you can provide proof for?

    Makes sense?

  25. Andrei Says:

    BTW, my offer still stands. Prove that you have been able to mass develop hundreds of domains (verifiable stats and the whole enchilada, as explained previously) and I will personally make sure that all of the people who invest in domains for a living know about your service.

    I will promote your service free of charge through all of the channels I have at my disposal without asking for one cent in return, all you have to do is back up your claims with verifiable proof.

    Sounds reasonable enough, wouldn’t you agree?

  26. DomainManagement.net Says:

    how about this because i had nda`s in my contracts i will offer you

    work one one if you agree to pay me the money when we meet agreed milestone its and gives the opportunity to experiance this for real
    at no risk to yourself i think thats fair dont you

    and please accept my apologies if i have appeared to passionate about
    the subject and i note a great writer , would be happy to be fully transparent at no risk to you :) on your project with details you can do what you feel fit to

  27. Andrei Says:

    @DomainManagement.net: there’s absolutely nothing to apologize for, this is a constructive civilized discussion and I always love it when a reader decides to comment.

    Now regarding your offer, I need to make one thing perfectly clear again: this post is about mass development (hundreds or thousands of domains) and not about individual websites.

    I have referred to this in a previous comment:

    “There’s no doubt in my mind that lots of people can give me 10 – 15 or so of their profitable websites as examples but that’s not mass development. When I say mass development, I’m referring to hundreds of domains at the very least.”

    Sure, you could build one profitable website. That’s not mass development. You could build two, three or ten. That’s not mass development either. Mass development is all about scalability.

    Data related to just one website or to just a few websites is not relevant because again, that’s not mass development. Only data related to LOTS of websites can be considered relevant.

    Building a profitable website is not hard, building a handful of profitable websites is not hard either. But building hundreds of profitable websites or even thousands of profitable websites, now there’s a challenge :)

  28. DomainManagement.net Says:

    i understand what you are saying of course mass within the week 500 domains is the holy grail but that wont work 500 would take approx 2 months at the moment so is that considered mass development ?

    i was trying to offer you the opportunity to experience the process
    that would be the same as if used for multiple sites

    then if you were happy with this process and the results

    then the choice is yours

    sod it its time for a poker re raise lol

    here`s a bite at the cherry we will argee a deal privately for

    50 domains to be developed at no risk to you money in escrow

    agreed milestones for payment now how about that :)

    and again you can do with the information what you want

    to prove or dispute the evidence and promise not to write ebook etc

    and sell the info you will be privy to

    lets us know we love a challenge @ DomainManagemet.net

  29. Andrei Says:

    @DomainManagement.net: as much as I appreciate the offer, starting to develop 50 domains for me now would not make sense. Why? Because we’d need at least one year in order to see results and there’s always the risk that you’re doing it for the free publicity and nothing more.

    In other words something along the lines of:

    1) Promise to develop my 50 domains

    2) Take advantage of the free publicity you’d be receiving and accept orders from other people

    3) Not do any work at all on my sites and then a few weeks later, simply say something like “sorry, we’re too busy atm, you can keep your money”

    If that were to happen, some of my readers (the ones who were to order from you as a result of the free exposure you’d be receiving) would end up being pissed off and rightfully so.

    Hope you understand where I’m coming from, we’ve never met before and long-term agreements can be tricky (I have to repeat myself: when you’re offering services, it’s guilty until proven innocent and not the other way around).

    Instead, why don’t you give us 50+ (preferably at least a few hundred sites though but I don’t want to be unreasonable, 50 will do) examples of websites you’ve developed so far (traffic stats for at least 1 year, revenue stats for at least 1 year, expense stats for at least 1 year and so on)?

    Maybe sites developed for others, maybe your own sites, I honestly don’t care. I simply want to see verifiable data, that’s it. You could call me unreasonable if I were to ask you for 500 examples but 50 should be more than manageable.

  30. nmwando Says:

    Andrei’s right, domainmanagement should show us what he did so far with sites developed by him. If you don’t have a track record you don’t have credibility……

  31. DomainBio.com Says:

    I too would like to see some successful sites before taking the next step and working with you on 10 or 50+ sites.

  32. DomainManagement.net Says:

    Domain bio you have my mobile number if you want some example sites no
    problem

    in fact i was talking to a client last night who started to read the

    thread and and has sent his comments put they have not been published ??

  33. Andrei Says:

    @DomainManagement.net: are you seriously accusing me of filtering comments?

    I checked the spam folder twice and don’t see the comments you have referred to, he probably did something wrong (maybe he forgot to click on the submit button or something like that). Tell him to comment again if he wants to.

    And everyone is still waiting for the proof I, nmwando and DomainBio.com have requested.

  34. LB Says:

    This DomainManagement.net commenter is a joke, even his site has grammar errors and he came here to do nothing but self promote his website. Look at some of this comments below.

    >>>PAYMENT TERMS PAY ONLY ONLY IF YOU ARE HAPPY WITH OUR WORK !!!!!!

    >>>If anyone would like a site developed as a test by us our charges are from $250 and 30% of revenue generated for what would be normally a
    $2,000 dollar site

    >>>you are wrong it loves my sites and i make great money from them and for my clients

    ETCCCCCCCCC

    How stupid would anyone have to be to trust a guy like this who spams comments with mentions about his own site? If we all start doing this nobody would read blog comments anymore because they would be full of spam.

    Grow up already DomainManagement.net and next time don’t make a fool of yourself will you

  35. Martin Says:

    Hi. This is a very interesting topic.

    I must say though that I don’t like the agressiveness of whoever LB is. Dont be rude and don’t spoil an interesting topic. Your making a judgement on a person you have never met and only seen write a few posts.

    I have been developing for quite some time now and I have approx 640 domains in the public domain. They do generate a nice monthly income and I have received all kinds of offers for these domains. Some I have sold, others I have kept.

    It makes sence to me if you develop a website that adds value to the user but also uses an effective moneytizing system and increase its value you are on to a winner.

    But I have wasted a number of domain names getting it wrong in the past but now I know my formula works I use it over and over again.

  36. DomainBio.com Says:

    @Martin: And you formula is? ;D

    Seriously though, please share some of your knowledge/experience here to maybe help strengthen the pro development argument! Also any experience you have on the mass development front.

  37. Nick Says:

    Martin might not like LB’s aggressiveness but I do and he probably should have been even more vocal. If you want traffic from this blog you should buy advertising like everyone else. You are spamming these comments and the only reason Andrei isn’t deleting all your comments is probably the entertainment they are giving us.

    But it’s entertainment at your expense in case you don’t realize it. These comments made you look like an amateur and your lack of evidence makes you look even worse, I’m talking about Domainmanagement. You spam comments and when you’re asked to prove your numbers, you conveniently mention ndas.

    And Martin everyone can talk about formulas, I’ve heard things like that so much that I would never believe them without solid evidence.

  38. Martin Says:

    I think on the other thread that Andrei really answers one of the issues in his first few paragraphs. It relates to Value.

    My websites DO add value. I dont fill them with rubbish spinned content. I make sure the information is informative. This way Google CANT hate you. If you follow Googles system of quality sites that add value then how can you go wrong.

    Yes it takes longer to develop but your return will be greater. Thats why it’s a Viable Long Term Business Model. I am not trying to SPAM Google. They do a great job of “Cleaning the Internet” and I applaude them for it.

    Most people have a bad experience because they either get it wrong or they get a small ROI because their moneytizing system is poor.

    You don’t get anyting for nothing so if your not prepared to put in the effore you won’t get anyting back.

  39. Nick Says:

    Martin, Andrei also said that not just duplicate content sites will get in trouble with google and he’s spot on. Are your 640 sites all ranking or how many of them are ranking? If you want to tell me that you can manage 640 sites of value, I’m calling bullshit.

  40. Martin Says:

    On another note. I have worked for years on my formula, changing and honing it, and I would in no way give it freely to anyone because I worked VERY hard to get it correct.

    I just wanted to make a comment to tell people that it can work if you get it right but after all the hard work, time, effort and money I put in to it I would have to have a gun to my head to release it.

    I’m not being rude or tight fisted. I’m just protecting my asset.
    Work out your own formulas guys and girls. I did ;)

    I hope you understand. :)

  41. Nick Says:

    In that case, you are not contributing to our comments with anything. Just a guy who says he found a system, like thousands of other people on the Internet.

  42. Martin Says:

    @Nick

    I earn enough revenue to pay people to manage them for me. Come on now guys. Can you really do it all on your own. You need to put some money against it.

    Lets get serious. It seems that you all want proof in the pudding but no one is going to publish invoices, statistical reports or anything else like theat.

    I’m not here to prove myself because i’m not offering any service here. I make my an income doing this and thats that.

    Good luck in the future guys but please don’t expect anyone to give you the answer. You need to work for it. ;)

  43. Martin Says:

    Not found Nick. Worked hard to develop and your not having it. ;)

  44. Nick Says:

    The point is your contribution means zero just like the spam comments from the other guy who pushes his site and then finds excuses when he’s called out and asked to prove his numbers.

    You don’t have to prove anything to anyone because you are not pushing your website, can’t argue with that. But that Domaindevelopment.net company had to prove itself and it didn’t. When they start talking about their nda or other excuses, the verdict is right there.

  45. DomainBio.com Says:

    Let me guess.. your formula is..

    keyword domain + unique content + affiliate product + SEO = revenue?

  46. Nick Says:

    If only it were that easy DomainBio. Everyone talks the talk but when you ask them to walk the walk and prove their numbers, goodbye. It’s called noise and the Internet is full of it.

  47. DomainBio.com Says:

    Nick: Well it actually that simple, it’s just that all that takes a lot of time to implement and get right but impossible to replicate on a mass development scale without having a team of people working round the clock for free!

    So were back to square one in relation to the initial point of this post, where ‘proper’ mass domain development is not a viable business.

  48. Andrei Says:

    @DomainBio.com: an EXCELLENT conclusion to this blog post :)

  49. DomainBio.com Says:

    Why thank you ;D

  50. Martin Says:

    Still a wrong conclusion though ;)
    And I dont see what you have contributed to the toipc either.

    Have you told anyone, anything of any value? – No
    Have you been positive to the topic? – No
    Have you provided evidence of your previous attempts? = No
    Have you told us anyting that you have attempted to do? = No
    Have you been successful in your attempts? = No

    In that case DO NOT CRITISISE!
    Don’t release your frustrations to people who HAVE made a success on the internet because to be frankly honest, we just don’t care.

    Perhaps the attitudes of people on this forum explains the reasons that you haven’t been successful. You want someone to GIVE you the answer instead of WORKING for your own answer. No one will do this for free because as you all know it takes a long time to develop a strategy like this.

    Perhaps this is the best contribution anyone has made on this topic.
    Do it yourself or find another way.

  51. DomainBio.com Says:

    Martin: I dont know who that is aimed at but you simply arent getting the purpose of this debate, ‘TO SEE IF MASS DOMAIN DEVELOPMENT IS A VIABLE BUSINESS MODEL’ not to show what weve tried. I have personally tried a lot of online solutions but to no avail, that doesnt indicate that im not successful in any way with my REAL sites, which i have many of, but they are a labour of love NOT mass developed. Get it?

    So, what success have you had with mass development if any as Ive yet to see any stats or metrics to indicate that you have had any at all? If you’re going to point the finger then cough up some hard evidence to show a real-life working solution and I (& Andrei) will gladly eat our words! I would love nothing more that to try out a scalable MASS domain development solution.

    Looking forward to seeing YOUR proof that mass development is a viable business model!

  52. Nick Says:

    I believe his comment was aimed at me and it’s pathetic. Next thing you know he will be generous enough to package his golden information as an ebook and sell it to us. I’ve seen people like him come and go. Nothing but noise and lies.

    They brag online but when they get called out by someone who actually makes money like Andrei, they look the other way.

    You contribution isn’t worth the keyboard you used to type the comments. You brag without proving anything, typical for the Internet. Unfortunately for you nobody is stupid enough to believe people like you nowadays. Maybe only those who believe they won a laptop every time they check their email.

    Get a life and stop bragging to people who see right through you about the success even a noob realizes you don’t have. Sorry to burst your bubble but maybe you can stop living in a lie and do something that actually makes you money.

  53. Sri Says:

    Hi All,

    We have proof. Mass development works, but it won’t if you are looking for doing it with just a few clicks or no-brainer-automation so to say. It involves manual work. I don’t think anyone would show the proof here, publicly, because that would violate TOSs and NDAs. Want to see proof? Contact me privately on admin at itssri dot com.

    Regfee domain > outsource cost $50 > my own time cost $50 = $110;
    Income projection = $10 per month from 3rd month;
    Flip over at $250 plus.

    Of course, a good domain is essential, like one of Andrei’s 272 two-keyword domains, not because Google will index them, but because they are easy for humans to recall and publicize.

    Google don’t penalize if you:
    Use their guidelines,
    Use proper meta tags and site (HTML) elements,
    Put standard elements like contact, policy declarations, sitemap, verification etc.,
    Don’t use keyword stuffing,
    Don’t use duplicate/spin/rehash content,
    Don’t spam links,
    Don’t use more than 30% virtual estate for ads,
    Provide value to human visitor.

    Just think, to place their advertisements, Google too need good content sites that will engage visitors.

    @Andrei: We can do mass development for your 272 two-keyword product domains – 50 per week. If you are game, I can privately email a bulk proposal costing less than $100 per site. Alternatively – we can develop half of them for you in exchange for the other half.

  54. DomainBio.com Says:

    Sri: Once again.. links to sites you have developed and stats/revenue after say 3 months. Your own site is nothing to go by as its a very ugly one pager.. no offence but not a good indication!

  55. Sri Says:

    @DomainBio:

    itssri dot com is a page I built years back and stays like that because big brother loves it! I never said this was a sample site.

    I mentioned the sample site in my 1st comment – CutleryHolders.com.

  56. DomainBio.com Says:

    big brother love it? WTF? CutleryHolders.com is a generic MFA site and will be dropped by google! You have 3x adsense blocks on the homepage which is a definate no-no…

    Stats for CutleryHolders.com

    Link popularity for http://www.cutleryholders.com
    Google Yahoo! AllTheWeb Total
    0 16 16 32
    DMOZ.org listed? – not listed.
    Google Directory listed? – not listed
    Yahoo! Directory listed? – not listed
    Domain age? – 1 years 4 months 27 days (According to Whois created on 11.02.2009).

    PAGERANK = 0

    How long is the site up as Google hasn’t indexed ANY pages!

    This is starting to wear thin now…

  57. DomainBio.com Says:

    http://www.cutleryholders.com/drawer-organizers/

    You also have 4x adsense blocks on internal pages with spun content.. also amazon affiliate shop! This site will definitively not be indexed by Google.

  58. Sri Says:

    @DomainBio

    It’s not spun content but 100% original, CopyScape clear content.

    And, what do you mean by “will … not be…”, it’s already there for a year now!

    Do a search for cutlery holders with or without quotes on Google or Yahoo or Bing or Ask.

    It’s been on #1 or #2 since last 6 months and was always on 1st page one month after the site went live 1 year back.

  59. Sri Says:

    @DomainBio:

    Page size 850 x 1212 = 1030200 pixels.

    Ads area:
    120 x 600 = 72000
    336 x 280 = 94080
    468 x 15 = 7020
    Total ad space = 173100 pixels = 16.8%

    And, for the extra link unit on the inner page, see Google guideline at:
    http://www.google.com/support/adsense/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=9735
    Also see this:
    https://www.google.com/adsense/support/bin/answer.py?answer=17958

  60. Andrei Says:

    @Sri: I will quote one of my comments again because as mentioned previously, this post is about mass development.

    Here’s what I have explained yesterday:

    “I’d LOVE to be proven wrong but I know I never will be. There’s no doubt in my mind that lots of people can give me 10 – 15 or so of their profitable websites as examples but that’s not mass development. When I say mass development, I’m referring to hundreds of domains at the very least.”

    It’s like a domainer with 10,000 .ws domains bragging about a $500 sale he once had and saying how .ws domains are the best thing since sliced bread, hope you understand where I’m coming from :)

    Also, one more thing

  61. Andrei Says:

    Oups, pressed the “Submit Comment” button too soon.

    I wanted to make one more thing perfectly clear: your site will not pass a manual review by the AdSense team. It’s a MFA site and the only reason why you haven’t been banned yet is represented by the fact that you flew under the radar so far when it comes to earnings.

    Once (or if) you start earning 4-5 figures per month consistently for a few months, your account will be reviewed and deep down inside I think you know what would happen ;)

  62. DomainBio.com Says:

    Exactly.. MFA to the max this one! You;ve just been lucky so far.. also read up on Amazon aff sites too.. just a matter of time.

  63. Sri Says:

    I am a small fish with about 500 domains/websites and well, my experience may never measure up to many of you old timers.

    Every one has their own way of doing things and their own experience and only time can tell what works well.

    BTW, there’s a Google Adsense support link I posted in a previous comment which is still under moderation. It will throw some light on DomainBio’s doubt about the number of ad link units.

    I don’t think there’s any radar but only that we need to know just where to draw the line. It’s a very thin line between knowledge sites appreciated by Google and MFAs they dislike.

  64. Andrei Says:

    @Sri: even with only 100 sites instead of 500, it’s still unfortunately only a matter of time until you will be loved tenderly by the AdSense crew.

    And as for the numbers you have provided (I have approved the comment you have referred to, it went into moderation because it contained those links), they are not relevant because I can assure you that nobody from the AdSense manual review team will start calculating pixels :)

    They will see a small page with only 212 words of content which has too many ads and the verdict is more than obvious.

  65. DomainBio.com Says:

    This is a MFA site! Let’s move on as these can be spit out of any MFA generator and not what we’re looking for and DEFINITELY not part of an ongoing business model as tried it and got very little revenue increase over parking. Its certainly something I wouldnt pay $100 or whatever you were looking for as can be generated easily as very quality (trust me I run a web design company for 9 years) and bangs of 1998.

    We need to forget monitization via PPC & stop sending good leads to Amazon for pennies! Theyre the only ones making money from the 1000’s of AAS’s out there (which G hates!). Anyone have any lead generation experience? I’d love to hear how the whole flow works as there is good money in this if you can get it right and PPC can be dropped or at least secondary which would give a better standing with Google.

    Im all for promoting affiliate products with a decent pay-out but not smothering the site with adsense as no one will use this site or ever come back/bookmark it.

    So, any fresh ideas in terms of large scale monitization? Its a viscous circle as you can’t produce a lot of sites with unique content and tailoring each site to a affiliate product/nice without a lot of work. Also the design, imagery, links all help to be unique to each site for it to be a useful resource and distill confidence in the site user to make a purchase decision.

  66. self defense weapons Says:

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  67. CopyRanger.com Says:

    Hi all,

    Folks reading this thread should know that DomainManagement.net is the real deal.

    It’s rare I comment on stuff like this.

    Do not underestimate his words. He has literally thousands of domains he controls.

    He has a staff of folks to manage. He wants to build them all out, not park them. It works better.

    How do I know?

    I write his copy. I write his feature articles/blogs.

    So before you make assumptions, understand that there real people behind these comments who are trying to help others. And shed a little bit of light on the subject.

    Steve is one of them. He is the real deal.

  68. Nick Says:

    You’ve got to be kidding me. He controls thousands of domains but can’t prove anything, not even the 50 examples Andrei indulgently asked for?

    What about those nda problems he told us about? Can you sign a nda with yourself? First he said he can’t prove himself because of nda problems, then he all of a sudden controls thousands of domains? Is this a joke?

    This is getting more ridiculous by the minute.

    So this guy comes along claiming he found the key to mass development.

    He’s asked to post proof and goes quiet.

    Now someone who supposedly works for him comes along telling us about how he is a big deal? How pathetic is that?

    Anyone who believes this guy deserves to lose money, thanks for the laugh though.

  69. CopyRanger.com Says:

    Say what you will.

    A very famous periodical in the States recently put out challenge & contest such as yours. Inviting companies to show off their social media expertise.

    They were slapped by the public. And slapped hard because their goal was to reverse engineer best practices.

    Nobody with any kind of intelligence and investment is going to do that. People are going to lurk and then reverse engineer.

    It just makes sense, doesn’t it? I hope so.

  70. Nick Says:

    This is really starting to get pathetic, it all boils down to this. If you want customers, you need to prove your numbers. The two of you should have at least gotten your stories synchronized, you could have avoided this disaster.

    First he starts spamming his services and when asked for proof, he plays the nda tune like a broken record and then you come along and say he actually owns and controls thousands of websites. Not exactly the smartest strategy eh?

    Like I said, anyone who falls for this crap deserves to lose money.

  71. CopyRanger.com Says:

    “Nick” I sincerely wish you the best. I contributed because I thought would add to the conversation, but obviously I haven’t. Good luck and much success with your domaining efforts.

  72. Nick Says:

    You didn’t and that’s exactly the problem, the two of you came here with only one agenda and that’s spamming your services. I don’t want people to lose money so I had to expose the truth and the nda disaster only made things worse for you.

    Andrei wrote a great post and it’s a shame people resort to spam this way. Nothing personal but what you did is wrong.

  73. Martin Says:

    How rediculous.

    A website like this that says Mass development is not a viable long term business yet advertises Bulk Domain Purchasing and Ultimate SEO “Hundreds Of Links”. This has to be one of the silliest contradictions I have seen. If you feel so strongly about this then why dupe your visitors into purchasing these services.

    And you say we are a joke because we wont publish any data about our businesses. You all must be having a laugh. This is our business information and i’m sure you wouldnt post this information about your business. Private and Confidential.

    You can all make your own opinions on who is right and who is wrong on here. I dont really care. But because none of you have actually developed on such a mass scale I dont believe any of you are in a position to make this decision.

    So to sumarise, what we have here is;

    A: One persons opinions about mass development who either hasn’t mass developed or has failed miserably.

    B: A website that dispells mass development as a long term business model yet promotes it via advertisements.

    C: Other people contributing who again either haven’t mass developed or have failed miserably.

    D: A community of people who want others to give them the answer and as copyranger rightly says “Reverse Engineer” our business models.

    It took me 5 years and tens of thousands of pounds to develop my system and I am not going to give it to a bunch of small minded people who sit around wondering what to do instead of doing it for yourself. Get your own money out and put your own time in to it. I dont care if you think I am full of s**t or not.

    Can you do it yourself – No. I have labor deployed in 4 countries to develop these sites. The information I hold in my system is worth millions of pounds and you want me to give it to you. Your having a laugh.

    Just another case of half arsed attempts to take on the internet. Believe me YOU WILL LOSE because none of you have the right attitude to make it succeed.

    I am , as you can tell, very passionate about by business because of the time, effort and outlay deployed so far. I read forums like this all the time and I see the same type people commenting like this all the time and none of them are successful. Here is the magic formula you are all looking for;

    Good Research + Time and Effort + Trail and Error + Investment = Proffit.

    Why?

    Because a good business man will never out money in to a project if the research shows that he wont get a good ROI.

    Think about the Dragons Den. They analyse every part of a business model before they invest money. And even when they agree on the TV they still go through Due Diligence. The difference between the Dragons and You Guys is this. They are investing money help that business to work. What are you guys offering to us if we give you this information. Nothinig of value.

    Get a grip guys!!!!

  74. Nick Says:

    @Martin: you have no idea what you’re talking about. The link building offer you see on this blog is just that, a link building offer. Does he mention anything about mass development anywhere in his offer? Or do only mass developers build links mr. expert?

    And what does bulk buying domains have to do with mass development? Have you ever heard of investing in domains?

    You seem to have quickly lost your temper there camper. Must have hit a nerve then, they all lose their temper when they get outed. Yeah keep lying to yourself that you’re successful but you know the truth and even noobs can see right through posers like you.

    Don’t spend all of that imaginary money in one place. And when you want to feel better about yourself, come back again and try to play the role of a successful mass developer again. Then when you’re outed and asked to prove your numbers, crawl back under the rock you came from and look the other way.

    The Internet is one of the funniest places in the world, only here can anyone pretend to be successful or even a gorgeous chick. Unfortunately for you, even a noob is laughing at you right now.

  75. self certification mortgages Says:

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  76. self certification mortgages Says:

    Leaders must also embrace the fact that their environment is rapidly changing. OAR project leaders (and their funders) must continually ask whether they are headed in the right direction and be prepared to adapt when necessary.

  77. electric underfloor heating Says:

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  78. Seve Says:

    Have not been on here for a while as its a bit messed up for my liking

    BUT SELF CERTIFICATION MORTGAGES

    CHECK OUT http://WWW.DOMAINLORE.CO.UK AND

    selfcertifiedmortgage.co.uk £40 2

    IS THIS UP YOUR STREET JUST THOUGHT I WOULD LET YOU KNOW

    so have any of you boys come up with a solution yet to your problems

    /discussions regards the topic matters i think that the thought of

    investing beyond the price of a domain name and lets say $100 for a website has got you all frustrated

    mass development is possible with resources of labour and organising it correctly

    but its how far you want to want to reach for your remote control
    that counts

    effort=reward i understand that’s difficult for people who made fortunes out of adsence etc etc i met with a few @ domainfest.com
    in los angeles earlier this year in los angeles were i had a booth

    the only thing in life that is constant is change

    its easy to mock people and harder to have vision
    yet those without vision like to mock but what does that bring to the table

    i do no need to justify myself i have the courage of my own convection which is great and thats what i like about my self

    *he who dare`s wins* is the motto of the British sas

    some of the guys here really just bullies who use logic and theory

    peer pressure

    why are you discussing this subject maybe to make money and you want
    someone to roll out a blueprint just for you maybe thats great for
    developing programmes and languages

    but for real systems that work come on give me a break
    why not just ask someone to pour a pot of cash into your laps
    but even then you would complain that the bills were not the right amounts .

    so why dont you apply your brains in a positive manner and instead of mocking apply yourselves in a in positive manner and find the solution for which you chastise others

    and lets see what your brains can come up with , up to now its a big fat zero using my elementary school teachers logiclike the last just said you must learn to adapt

    can you do that , can you teach a old dog new tricks

    or maybe its because the people mocking dont have a very good revenue earning portfolio and thats what the problem is

    that the domains you bought were your choice and the mass deployment method you used was your choice and your choice was wrong on both accounts other wise you would not be a bitter bully sounding like a know it all here mocking everyone that does not agree to you way of thinking

    The problem is people like NICK , ANDREI YOU WANT SOMETHING FOR NOTHING

    i will leave you here as i really dont understand what the agenda is of this site is

    domain bio thanks for the phone call asking about development etc which i was a bit puzzled by.
    a guy that has a web design/ seo company in Ireland that wants another company to develop and seo his portfolio now there’s
    confidence for you but when i saw the portfolio i understood why

    thats why i did not respond to you

    Like i said *HE WHO DARES WINS*

    AND SINCE THE TITLE OF THE SITE IS DOMAINING TIPS

    HERES ONE IF YOU ARE GOING TO CONSIDER DEVELOPING ON A LARGE SCALE

    DEVELOP KEYWORD HEAVY DOMAINS WITH REASONABLE EXACT SEARCH VOLUME

    THAT WAY YOU WONT BE WASTING YOU TIME OR MONEY

    IF YOU DEVELOP IN WORDPRESS OR HTML GREAT YOU CAN ADAPT TO THE CHANGING ENVIRONMENT

    IF YOU GO FOR A CHEAP MASS DEVELOPMENT STRATEGY LIKE YOU ARE AFTER
    THEN YOU ARE IN CHAINS AND WILL FIND IT DIFFICULT TO CHANGE

    SO LONG I REALLY HOPE THE OPEN MINDED PEOPLE GET WHAT THEY WHAT

    AND THE BULLIES WELL WE WILL LEAVE YOU TO MASSAGE EACH OTHERS EGO`S
    WHILE YOUR CAMP FIRE OF EARNINGS SLOWLY EXPIRES

    FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE AND NOT THE BULLIES

    HOW DOES THAT SIT WITH YOUR ELEMENTARY SCHOOL LOGIC

  79. self defense weapons Says:

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  80. DomainBio.com Says:

    Seve / domainmanagement.net: So you say nothing for weeks to provide any proof of your claims and to answer any of the questions put to you, then you unleash with your dilusional shite again?

    Let me just get this straight, As soon as I posted my 1st reply to this post your ‘web designer’ emailed me:

    ———————————–

    “Hi. We were watching and contributing to the thread on Domaining Tips regarding Minisites not being a viable long term business model and you mentioned you were sold on the idea of developing.

    Steve (who is currently trying to enlighten people reading the topic as Domain Management.net) is extremely knowlegeable about this avenue of such a long term business model.

    He has an offer for you;
    Provide him with one of your domains as a test. He will do all the work on it to have it designed, developed with content and On Page SEO and if you like it pay him and if you dont like it dont have it. $250 – $300 dollars.

    The point here is that even a 5 page website develped correctly and matured over time will be more valuable to the next owner.

    Regards

    Martin
    EnhancedMedia.com”
    ———————————–

    SO, the reason I called you was to see what you had to offer AFTER your business partner(?) contacted me! Yes I run a successful web design company here in Ireland that looks after our clients for over 7 years but dont have the resources to go into mass domain development, and what you told me is simply what we could do ourselves but wouldnt bother as I know it doesnt work and/or get banned from Google. After seeing your example MFA site I had a great laugh as I can pump out these excuses for sites for free so why would i pay you? This is why I didnt get back to you, not the other way around!

    And you comment on my portfolio? Domains on DomainBio.com are for sale and cover a wide spectrum of niches and I make regular x,xxx sales so no problem there. The domains I want to build out are not listed on DomainBio.com! Get your facts right!

  81. DomainBio.com Says:

    I also phone everyone when it comes to business so don’t flatter yourself. Its a great way of cutting to the chase and sussing people out. I never sent you my list of domains to develop as I saw right through you after talking to you…

  82. Andrei Says:

    @everyone: it seems that DomainManagement.net and Martin (regentalexander.com) are one and the same person. This is just pathetic, I mean how low can you go?

    I’m a very understanding person but come on, wtf? You have 24 hours to post an explanation and a public apology or I will make this incident even more public by writing another blog post about it.

    First you comment as DomainManagement.net and advertise your services, I’m not too strict about these things so even though people called you a spammer, I kept your comments.

    Then I obviously ask for proof and you come up with one excuse after another. Then someone who works for you comes and says how great you are. Seriously? I mean come on, someone who works for you? You actually thought that was a good idea?

    And to take things to a totally different level, “Martin” comes over playing the part of a successful mass developer who knows better and claims to have found the key to success. When he is asked to post proof, he obviously comes up with excuses and when I check out some comments via the WordPress admin area, guess what I notice: “Martin” and DomainManagement.net used the exact same IP address when posting!

    This is just hilarious, here’s a short recap:

    1) You advertise your services but come up with excuses when asked to post proof

    2) Someone who works for you comes over to talk about how great you are. Again, how could you think that this approach is a good idea?

    3) You pretend to be “Martin” to make things even funnier

    I’m a very reasonable person but this is just pathetic. You have 24 hours to post an explanation and a public apology or I will make this incident even more public by writing another blog post about it.

    This is the last time I’m trying to be a nice guy, one more lie from you and I’m taking it personal.

  83. DomainBio.com Says:

    Yep. Maybe lock the post after that as its get annoying now and i’m tired hearing the drivel.

    db

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  86. self certification mortgages Says:

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  88. Seve Says:

    well i dont really care what anyone thinks i am not looking for validation i am happy and make very good money from the internet

    i am currently in Bucharest Romaina opening a development office to have the work we are getting

    interviewing potential staff think 6-8 should do it have had a great weak on purchases now own the best keyword rich uk domain for the kitchen industry kitchenunits.co.uk broad 823,000 exact 125.000

    turned down a offer from the states for personalinjury .org
    for $25,000 for everyone who normally thinks i bullshit you can have the email

    yes a jv partner commented on this thread why should`nt he

    purchased 6 finance sites all indexed one or two good keyword heavy
    domains ones

    debtconsolidationprograms.co.uk
    debt-settlement.co.uk
    debt-consolidation-uk.co.uk
    debtmanagementcompany.co.uk
    business-finance.co.uk
    insolvencypractitioner.org.uk

    debtbuddy.co.uk 4 yrs old indexed and trusted

    another purchase at weekend

    creditcarddebt.org.uk
    homeinsurancequotes.org.uk

    credit-card-rates.co.uk
    whiplashinjury.org.uk
    bestcreditcarddeals.org.uk
    adversecreditmortgages.org.uk

    now its only my opinion but but the reason for a lot of moaning around here is because of the Domains that i have seen well

    there not great traffic pullers its like opening a shop
    no use opening one were there is no traffic

    i love this industry its so full of oppertuinity and some really nice folks you know i have been called because i wont say who clients are

    or mention active sites well i dont care i am not trying to sell anyone here anything i was actually responding to a challenge
    lay down i am not the person reneging here

    SUGGESTION TO THE MOANERS GET UP OF YOU ASSES AND DO SOMETHING

    SITES OF 5-10 PAGES WORK WHAT DOES NOT WORK IS HAVING POOR DOMAINS

    PS I HAVE A NICE BID FOR ReMortges.org.uk why because

    i shit my self and paid good money for it any one want to put a serious offer in for IntersetOnly.com

    ps the mortgages guys why are you posting under 2 different names

    going to the same website in crewe !!!!!!!!!!!!

    see you in manchester if you fancy a drink any one going to domainfest.com in prague love to say high

  89. Andrei Says:

    @Steve: I asked you why you posted comments under multiple identities (in other words, why you pretended to be someone else) and your reply is a long comment which has nothing to do with my question?

    Wow, gotta love the Internet :)

  90. Steve Says:

    Hi Andrei i can confirm with out hesitation i have only posted under my own steam cant you tell by the bad writing lol and grammar

    if jv partners etc want to posted there opinion well i suppose there
    allowed to would you not say ??

    i have no need to pretend to be someone else i am 47 have lead a great life been up and and down and down and up and down again and feel that if you pass through life without making mistakes then you have not tried hard enough

    i notice the people moaning mostly are the people whoes doman portfolio is not to strong or maybe i should not say that
    because i have not seen there full lists there are always great sounding domains and when you see the traffic and it is traffic stats that count there not so good but look good these kind of domains
    are difficult to sell .

    as i said i have 47 yrs and travelled extensively to over 52 countries yesterday was a new one for me chez

    i dont need validation from you or others i have the courage of my own conviction and i put my money were my mouth is

    if i make a mistake i dont bully people i move on and try and learn from

    your thread title is nieve a little bit like one or two of the domains i have seen floating around

    mini sites do work fact, my writing and grammar crap

    I am passionate about the internet as were else can you earn such money and have such fun

    from such a small seed as a domain but it looks like you think that
    there is a miracle grow formula or have been burnt buy a company
    offering such fools gold

    i wright this from my suite at the capitol plaza hotel in Bucharest

    so if you fancy give me a ring as for mr steve my passion has taken me to take me to this year Romania India Los Angeles London Germany

    upto now with Prague london 2-3 more times a domainers meeting in manchester my home town and prob back to see maybe you would like to see my passport you can if you want but you will prob just make another remark to try and but me down

    SO HOW FAR DO YOU GO FOR YOUR PASSION ITS LOOKS LIKE NOT OUT OF YOUR COMFORT ZONE

    have a great day and weekend

  91. Andrei Says:

    @Steve: the comments I am referring to came from the exact same IP, it’s not a matter of “did you pretend to be someone else?”, it’s a matter of “it’s obvious you pretended to be someone else, why on Earth did you do it?” :)

    I can provide screenshots if you want me to, it’s not exactly a “my word vs. yours” situation, the facts are obvious to anyone. Everyone makes mistakes but what I don’t understand is why you don’t just admit that you screwed up royally (again, nobody’s perfect). No hard feelings or anything but what you did is just plain wrong.

  92. Steve Says:

    have ever been in business

    sometimes you allow a jv partner to share a spare office in you premisses allowing the venture to have the best possible start
    in life

    you speak about obvious but you can see further that your nose
    how sad yes you will see that martin is from enhancedmedia.com
    you can check the who is its mine i gave the guy a chance after his own
    business had to be put on the back burner if you must know

    i use that also to sponsor http://www.brad-anderson.co.uk a friend of mines
    son check the who is again i have nothing to hide its mine

    i like helping people its rewarding better than putting people down

    your problem is you probably believe there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq didn’t you

    dont judge me by your standard because the are obviously lacking

    the way you try and position your self by use of words is a joke

    “obviously” from a elementary school teacher thats a good one

    once again are you in business andrei or just someone who likes to

    try and bully people who dont conform to there opinion

    you must learn everyone is allowed a point of view but you try and impact it on others when you have no authority on the subject matter
    and no experience either.

    whats the most you have paid for a domain
    do you have a online business not a hobby that earns 7 figures
    i guess not

    the reason i make such comments is that experience allows me to

    and i have a passion for the internet in fact i will let you make more snide comments about a project that i am completing before

    xmas the worlds best online kitchen design programme with features that have never been used before in the area too

    hey no hard feelings andrei there is a uk saying he who laughs last last longest

    ps i have had no call yet opps maybe if you ask for mr patterson

  93. Steve Says:

    Ps if i sent you a email from my other on line business

    it would come from same ip

    was ricks from the same one too ?????

    the 2 people who both do come from the same ip here are

    self certification mortgage and commercial mortgages they link back to the same site but hey its just prpobably someone from india having some fun

    Mr DomainBIO you say i talk shite but didnt you ring up asking me about your domains with me and i didnt get back to you the reason
    being you said you have seo and webdesign agency and when i looked at your portfolio i could see why you had not bothered your self with
    developing you own stuff because they were a bit sub standard now
    were`nt they that why you had not bothered yourself either that or your seo is shite so which one is it to be

    you may think i am not a nice guy but actually its the opposite

    i can stand up for my self i have respect in the uk from those that matter i just dont like smart ass bullies :)

    i did not start all of this but i will certainly most Finnish it
    do not assassinate my character when you do not even no me

    ps were is my ip showing from now clever cloggs andrei you going to tell everyone

    or does that not suit you

  94. Andrei Says:

    @Steve: so now all of a sudden Martin goes from being a successful developer who came to tell us “sheeple” how great he is to being someone who failed in business or as you chose to put it “i gave the guy a chance after his own business had to be put on the back burner if you must know “?

    Oh and he just so happened to post a comment from the same IP?

    Wow, just wow! This keeps getting better and better.

    Steve, the problem with lies is that they always come back to haunt you. Just take a moment to analyze the mess you have created and how all of this makes you look. Writing mile-long comments about anything else aside from the obvious issue doesn’t exactly help your case.

    As far as I’m concerned, it’s all good. Your replies keep my readers entertained (at your expense unfortunately) and after about 100 comments to this post, all I can say is this: the events everyone has seen unfold make it clear just how things work on the Internet.

    Hopefully everyone, including you, learned a lesson thanks to this post. You can go on and on about how successful you are or whatever, deep inside you know the truth and you will only be able to change the way things stand for the better if you face reality and build on something that isn’t a lie.

    I honestly have nothing against you, hopefully these events have represented a reality check which will help you down the road. Oh and just one more thing: if you’re serious about offering services, you need to seriously improve the way you communicate online.

    Spell check your posts, express ideas in a coherent manner and so on. The average Internet surfer or commenter doesn’t have to do these things but service providers will be judged by the way they present themselves online.

  95. Steve Says:

    your right i need to improve my grammar

    i dont say how successful i am do i

    i just say what i am doing

    would you like to mention were my ip is from at the moment oh you did not to discredit me no

    did you find your weapons of mass destruction

    have a happy life putting folks down because that all you do

    there are talkers and doers in life and it looks like your a talker

    did you check out the who is on the domains i showed and confirm or say i was lying about them too

    you are very selective were i am open

    by the way could you point me to the good domaining tips you have given on this site

    get a life get a decent domain portfolio

    your probably a nice guy when all said and done but i dont take kindly to someone who does not even know me attacking my character

    and only informing his readers to what he considers effective propaganda

    ITS NOT ME THAT HIDES BEHIND A PRIVACY BLOCK VIA MONIKER IS IT

    ITS YOU COME OUT INTO THE REAL WORLD INSTEAD OF TAKING CHEAP SHOTS AT

    PEOPLE , DO YOU REMEMBER WERE THIS STARTED I PICKED UP ON A CHALLENGE FROM YOU AND YOU DID NOT LIKE THAT BECAUSE YOU COULD HAVE BEEN WRONG

    IF YOU ARE FORM THE STATES THEN THIS IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF ACTIONS WHY THE REST OF THE WORLD DISLIKES YOUR COUNTRY

    I SEE YOUR WITH MONIKER

    AGAIN I ASK YOU TO LAY OUT WITH WHAT AUTHORITY YOU SPEAK

    YOUR EXPERIENCE, AND YOUR PORTFOLIO YOUR BACKGROUND

  96. Andrei Says:

    @Steve: are you serious?

    Everyone in the industry knows who I am, perform a whois search on Auctionpus.com, MiniEscrow.com or whatever and see for yourself.

    This has to be one of my most amusing experiences since I bought the blog. You pretend to be someone else (feel free to request screenshots which prove that you were posting comments under different aliases from the same IP) and then, when politely asked to at least admit your mistake and apologize, start babbling about everything and I mean EVERYTHING aside from the issue I have raised :)

  97. Steve Says:

    ok so lets use logic

    Andrei why do you post as both andrei and million dollar ????????

    its miss leading as i thought you judge people by you actions

    and not the reality .

    everybody does not know of Auctionpus.com and how many sales have been made from this site it looks dead to me

    mini escrow sound it would be good but you need to market it better

    i am in Bucharest at the moment and if you would like to meet that would be a pleasure

    use this logic if mass developement is not viable then you better

    tell icann etc to stop issuing domains and nominet in England too

    for someone who owns a Domaintips site there are surprisingly few

    actual domaining tips i am on forums that have many many serious users

    and my reputation is beyond doubt yes it says that on acorndomains.co.uk

    on domainlore.co.uk i have a very high competence level too

    my friend it appears that you like antagonising me and mock the fact

    that i am dyslexic too shame on you to mock someone with a disability

    no i know you are Romanian it explains a lot about you

    so why do you as one person post as 2 people answer that one

    from the same ip lol like i said dont judge me by your standards

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    Have you looked around lately at the newer domain name auction platforms? What happened? The lifespan is shorter these days for smaller domain auction websites that try to launch amongst the big auction houses like Sedo. Since Bido closed down in May this year, the startup that was funded by Sahar Sarid who is well-respected
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  104. Andrei Says:

    @Steve: again, you’ve got to be kidding me. All of my posts are written as “BillionDollarMedia”, it’s the name of my company and my WordPress username. Nobody else has ever written any posts on this blog since I bought it from the previous owner.

    Oh, btw, we’ve had a little under 90 sales so far and given the fact that Auctionpus.com is less than 3 months old, we’re looking at an average of about a sale per day so far, I guess we must be doing something right :)

    It can take years until an auction site is established, gathering and analyzing data is the most important thing as far as year one is concerned.

    Before I forget, what does Auctionpus.com have to do with development or with the fact that you have been caught posting from the same IP under different aliases?

    Your reputation management skills aren’t exactly something worth bragging about:

    1) You bragged about your services, yet haven’t posted any proof after people called you out
    2) You pretended to be someone else and have been caught
    3) Instead of apologizing, you turn everything into an even bigger disaster by posting lie after lie

    This blog post has turned into something a LOT better than I had expected: I wanted it to help beginners understand that mass development is not a viable long-term business model and it ended up turning into an excellent case study about just how misleading everything on the Internet is (people making claims they can’t back up, the same person posting comments under different aliases etc. etc.).

    All I can say is this: thanks for the free entertainment (sorry that it was at your expense but it’s your fault, you shouldn’t have made claims you can’t back up and, most importantly, you shoudln’t have made fake comments under different aliases) :)

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  110. Steve Says:

    I like it when you say stuff like ASSUME ASS-U-ME

    are you pissed at developing because it has not worked out so well

    and is this going to cloud your judgement on advising others to develop

    because how else do you see this industry growing to get domains

    worth more money you have to create demand and how would you suggest

    to do that the end user does not see the value so clear

    its kinda like to them a new car all in bits and asking them to put

    it together , car made care in bits which is going to sell for more

    i was at a domain conference for the last 2-3 day name drive in

    Manchester uk and i can tell you there is a lot that dont share your

    opinions not just the audience but panellist speakers also

    Once again Mass Development is a viable option .

    get out of bed and develop dont be scared give it a go and write to

    your readers giving them the benefit of your experience in stead

    of going on assuming and thinking start doing wake up smell and smell

    the coffee great spam you got going on on here

  111. Andrei Says:

    @Steve: well, let’s look at it this way. If mass development were working great for you, why would you be spending so much time posting under fake usernames on my blog in a desperate attempt to convince beginners to send some pocket change your way?

  112. Sri Says:

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  113. friendship gift Says:

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  114. friendship gift Says:

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  115. Steve Says:

    again i love this i have not asked anybody for anything the only people reading this are you and me look at the posts around our posts and you will see mainly spam

    i am happy are you as i would not be if this was one of my businesses

    just had a really great weekend @ http://www.meetdomainers.co.uk not great bunch of people . believe the traffic show in dublin was a bit of a let down
    are you going to Prague Andrei ?? would be nice to say hi or in fact

    do you go to your own capital Bucharest as will be there again from tomorrow for 1 week i love the place so much i opened a office there
    in sector 1 next door to the children’s hospital then its back to the uk on the 10th sept for a meeting with head of sedo uk hugo and then
    lucky enough to get a invite to the uk`s top networking party at Angie`s.

    ps my jv with martin has gone on the back burner as his farther was taken into hospital with suspected hart attack and martin is now looking after him

    i have never posted in 2 names a child could see that and i dont have the need too unlike others that force there views on OTHERS

    Oh by the way how is the market place coming on for Octopus i do wish you well as it is always difficult starting a new venture

    i have 1 or 2 domains sales fall through recently

    maybe you could offer some advice on how best too complete on a sale etc

  116. Andrei Says:

    @Steve: out of the 115 comments this post has at the moment of writing, about 12 are spam (just some guy spamming blogs for SEO purposes, everyone’s gotta make a living I guess) but the other ~100 are not, so I can’t complain (as a blogger, it’s always nice to see that some posts end up having 100+ comments).

    I hope Martin’s dad gets well soon and as far as what you did is concerned Steve, you need to understand that the stunt you pulled with fake comments and everything really sucked because you lied and wasted people’s time. Nothing personal but in the future, just be upfront and build on a solid foundation, lying is never the best approach.

    And when it comes to domain sales falling through, it happens to everyone unfortunately. I’ll try to publish a post with tips on how to maximize results soon, should be an interesting discussion and I’m looking forward to seeing you again in the comments section. But this time, please only post under one identity :)

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  119. friendship gift Says:

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  129. Steve Says:

    Well i am glad , a year has passed almost , its been interesting
    Developing my sites ( which all start off as mini sites :)

    we have many page one positions :)

    we have had over xxx,xxx is sales of domains and websites in thje last year

    So what am i trying to say is as follows , when some startsd a conversation by positioning them selves as a expert

    make sute they can walk the walk as well as they can talk the talk

    Viva Minsites

  130. Andrei Says:

    @Steve: anyone can claim they made 10 trillion dollars last week, words which aren’t backed by proof don’t mean all that much on the Internet these days. You bring nothing new to the table unfortunately. All I see is words and vague claims, no proof whatsoever.

    The same request is still valid: if you want to be taken seriously, we need to see proof that mass development is a viable and scalable long-term business model. So something along the lines of “we developed x sites, invested $y and generated $z over the past 3 years” (where x should be a number greater than let’s say 500 but preferably 1k+) with screenshots which back up each and every claim (revenue screenshots, traffic screenshots and so on).

    Nothing personal Steve but as a service provider, you need to understand that the burden of proof is on you and not the other party :)

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  134. Ecommerce Leeds Says:

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  135. Single Holiday Says:

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  136. Ryan O'Meara Says:

    It’s amazing really. I think we domainers sometimes become obsessed with the Google news and updates rather than what is actually true in reality. I’ve found mini sites, provided the content is good and the domain is right, still work. The process that Google has done well to cull is automated spammy stuff. But the reality is, it’s totally viable to develop a 10 (unique) article site on a good domain for less than $100. That includes content, backlinks etc. So x 10 domain development projects at $100, provided you get back more than $1k for one of them, you have a business.

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